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I'm so excited to be moderating our first listserv discussion of the year. I hope everyone has read at least the first chapter or two of Is There a Public for Public Schools?

I would like to begin our discussion with a paragraph from page 11, in chapter 2. Mathews is talking about the disconnect between the public and our public schools. He says that the relationship between the two need to be improved, that "Americans are looking for a different way of working with educators; they want a relationship among equals."

"We won't begin to get at what has gone wrong in the relationship, however, until we are willing to think the unthinkable--that the public for public schools could be slipping away. Taking that perspective shifts our attention away from the schools to the public they are intended to serve. As I have said, reforms have to start in and with the community if they are ever to move into the classroom. One experienced principal made the same point when he testified, 'I learned that you can't do school reform inside the school.'"

I choose this paragraph because I thought it was an interesting juxtaposition to much of the other literature we have read together about school reform.

Stigler and Heibert, in The Teaching Gap and Elmore in his piece about standards clearly believe that school reform won't work unless, in Elmore's words, it has an effect on "the instructional core". Schools and schooling can't be reformed from the outside of schools, but need to be reformed from the inside.

Are they talking about the same type of reform that Mathews is? Do their visions of reform serve the same purpose as his vision?

Judi Fenton
NYC
November 1, 2003

Hi Judi and TNPI National:

The more I look at changes and programs that we implement in Chicago, they
more I agree with Mathews' perspective. If we can't involve parents in
schools, than we do little to really impact the children we teach. We
always say that parents are the first teachers yet we do little to pull them
into the education of their children.

I think fellows, Lamson Lam and Sandra Bravo's reserach, point to the
importance and impact of parent involvement in the success of children. We
can't assume that parents know what to do or have the resources to support
what goes on at school. We see children for 6 hours a day. Many of our
parents spend less time with their children due to working, financial, and
other outside factors that impact their time and resources.

I believe all parents want to do the right thing for their children but many
are unsure what to do, might be intimidated by the school culture or
language plays a significant role in their ability to help their children.
We know that the school cannot do it all. Today we feed children, instruct
them, provide daycare and medical care, social work and other services and
yet we fall short.

I also believe that in many ways, the public has the perception that they
are "experts" because everyone has been to school. We've all had teachers
so of course we can speak to what teachers need to do to educate children.
I think NCLB is a perfect example of this phenomena. No other profession
faces this same issue. Although we have all been to doctors, few would
claim to express to the medical community what they need to do - perhaps
perception is reality.

Anyway, I believe schools need to start looking at those that they service.
How can their needs be meet and how can they help support the needs of
children? Schools not only need to educate children but parents and
communitites if we are ever going to really have impact.

I know I never had a course in my teaching preparation regarding working
with parents, community, etc. - creating communities of practice. Did
anyone else? I find that much of my time is spent in these endeavors. I
think these are important skills for teachers and administrators to possess
in order create a strong, dynamic learning community.

Thanks.

Trish Meegan
Chicago
November 2, 2003

At our school in Lexington, Kentucky, we are fortunate enough to be a middle
school with a feeder elementary school known for its phenomenal amount of
parent involvement. I wanted to tap into this, so I called the principal
over there and asked her what all the parents did. They answered the door,
made bulletin boards, did cafeteria duty, etc- none of which was appropriate
for our middle school needs. So, I sent home an announcement bulletin with
report cards that advertised a meeting I was going to hold one evening for
parents who wanted to be involved at the middle school level. About 60
parents showed up and I spent about an hour explaining the needs of our
school- that we needed parents fluent in using standards-based unit writing
software, folks willing to help with writing workshop, specialists in
writing open-response questions, etc. Then, I had a sign up sheet, broken
down by categories, where parents could sign up by the topic they were most
inclined to do. Once people signed up, I had my "calling tree parent" set up
training sessions where I met with the parents and trained them how to do a
particular job. I let them "practice" on our amenable teachers until they
were skilled at their task. Then, we set up regular appointments for the
parents to work with teachers during their plan. Eventually, they became
autonomous and even trained other parents as they came on board. The staff
at my school love the help and enjoy interacting with other adults. The
parents are happier because they have a much greater understanding of how
education functions.

For the parents who were not free during school hours, we set up after
school times or had them do tasks that didn't require their presence at
school- like writing rubrics or planning differentiated lessons, etc.
This is how I encouraged parent involvement in the schools and resolved
the "unsure about what to do" scenario. We all know what to do and don't
have the time to do all the extra stuff we want to, so I set the parents to
doing the extra. We all benefit.

Anne Buchanan
Fayette County, KY
November 3, 2003

It seems that many schools are still pretty isolated by working on reform from within. It is still a challenge to even get some teachers to think outside their own classrooms.

When we think of the "public" we should be thinking of a broad definition of the word. (I have just finished Ch 2 so may be speaking too soon.) It is my feeling that when we work in partnership with the community (including parents, business representatives, service clubs, etc.) and the university/ies, and others that we can learn so much more to help the "inside efforts" of school reform. Partnership here implies efforts that benefit all in the partnership. It implies working together for identified needs, creating joint
vision, sharing resources, monitoring efforts, and celebrating achievements.

If we want to see reform at the "instructional core" level as Stigler, Heibert, and Elmore speak of, I feel we need to support efforts for increased teacher collaboration and authentic professional development, and ensure that the collaborative work is centered on teaching, learning, effective practices to motivate students to learn and meet standards, and monitoring of student learning.

Carol Gregor
Santa Barbara
November 3, 2003

Lisa Purcell
NYC
November 3, 2003

Connie Rohde-Stasnchfield
Santa Barbara County, CA
November 3, 2003

I had a couple of teachers who did not meet my needs as a learner and yet I
was forced to sit there day after day and try to get something out of my
time spent in class. The powerful and enduring lesson that I learned from
those experiences is that I had no ability to change the way I was taught
and I know that I am not alone in this knowledge. Maybe this apathy is a
sign that we are a nation of learners. We learned not to challenge the
status quo so well that we are willing to accept whatever news comes from
schools. You go to school to learn, school doesn't come to you to be taught
a lesson.

Jill Manning
Los Angeles
November 6, 2003

p13 "To be sure, free to all citizens carried with it the nineteenth
century's definitions of eligibility for citizenship, which specifically
excluded African-Americans and Native Americans. Still the ideals behind the
promotion of public school, particularly ideals like justice and equity,
were a constant challenge to the prevailing restrictions."

The remnants of the sentiment expressed in the statement exist today.
Although Mathews makes compelling arguments about the disconnect between
public schools and the public, the root of the problems that exist today
have more to do with race and class more than anything else. There are many
public schools that provide a quality education. Most of them are located in
areas populated by middle to upper- class, white people. It's not a
coincidence that many of the low-performing schools are found in minority
neighborhoods. Within the same public school system, you find schools that
are grossly under-resourced and schools that have an abundance of
resources. You find schools with no working computers and schools that have
state of the art computer labs.

Jude Julien
NYC
November 7, 2003

Trish started us off (thanks Trish!) by talking about changes in Chicago. She says that “We can’t assume that parents know what to do or have the resources to support what goes on at school.” She also reminds us, as does Jill, that all parents and community members have gone to school, some having a better experience than others, and this has an effect upon how they feel about their schools. Jill learned that, “..I had no ability to change the way I was taught.” (is that why you became a teacher, Jill?—to change the way others are taught?). Trish believes that “…the public has the perception that they are “experts” because everyone has been to school.”

Gail, Lisa, Carol, Connie, and Anne talk about the importance of schools and communities creating true partnerships in the service of our schools. Carol talks about how we have to simultaneously focus on school reform from the inside and the outside, while thinking of the “public” using a “broad definition of the word. (including parents, businesses, service clubs, universities, etc).” Gail agrees with this broad view of community. Connie cites the importance of strong and visionary leadership in schools to involve the community. Anne gives a great example of how asking parents to be involved in the instructional needs of the school benefits both the school and the larger community. She states, “The parents are happier because they have a much greater understanding of how education functions.” Lisa wonders “How do we get communities to understand that a partnership is beneficial for everyone?”

I think this links up with Jude’s point that “the root of the problems that exist today have more to do with race and class…There are many public schools that provide a quality education. Most of them are located in areas populated by middle to upper-class white people. It’s not a coincidence that many of the low-performing schools are found in minority neighborhoods. Within the same public school system you find schools that are grossly under-resourced and schools that have an abundance of resources.” So, as Lisa wonders, “How do we get communities, (I’ll add, especially those in middle to upper class neighborhoods) to understand that a partnership is beneficial for everyone?” This is an issue that we have been exploring deeply in NYC. How can change a system of inequity in education that is rooted so deeply in issues of race and class? How can we get middle to upper class, predominantly white community members (like me) to understand that it would benefit them to support all public schools in getting the resources they need, not just their own child, grandchild or neighbor’s kid’s school?

Take a look at Mathews in chapter 3. He talks about the importance of "being connected" and about looking at the public purposes of schooling. Page 47--"When communities begin by looking at the public purposes before proceeding to educational menas, they create a context for thinking about mandates for schools, with the result that people know something about where schools fit into the larger scheme of things."

What do you think? Have a great weekend!
Judi Fenton
NYC
November 7, 2003

He defines the purpose of school in the beginning of Ch.2. He says, "Our
earliest schools were public in purpose but not in character or operation...
State schools were schools for the poor; they were pauper schools rather
than public schools, reflecting a policy consistent with the prevailing view
that education was primarily the responsibility of parents." (p. 13)

Let's be real here. The reason why our current adminstration (both federal
and local) is undermining public education systems with the NCLB, vouchers,
and charters movement is to fulfill this early notion of schools. Urban and
rural schools, which house the poorest segments of the population, are
consistently underfunded, yet required to meet achievment standards of
school districts like Scarsdale here in NY State (one of the richest
communities in the US). It is a fundamental belief of many conservative
people (regardless of political affiliation) that public schools should be
pauper schools; if parents want a decent education for their children, they
should pay for it- either in private tuition or local taxes. Notice here,
conservative has nothing to do with money, because even many poor
beneficiaries of public schools believe in the stated purpose of poor
schools.

Case in Point:
In the Bronx, there is a new movement for students to wear uniforms,
mandated by principals, parents, students and teachers. Parents are calling
for retired correction officers to be school saftey agents in Mount Vernon.
Poor parents are eating up vouchers and Edison schools not realizing that if
their students fail to comply with their standards, they are bounced- and
end up back in public schools. Public schools are seen as dumping grounds.

I believe that some stakeholders are really trying to make public schools
public in character and operation. But the problem is that there are others
who are saying this but purposely creating the other type of public schools
that Mathews talks about. We call that wolves in sheep clothing- and
parents, teachers, students, and whole communities need ways to distinguish
the two or else a slaughter is inevitable.

So all I'm saying is that people need to be clear about which purpose for
public schools they truly believe in and are trying to achieve. If you
believe in making public schools public in character and operation, then be
committed. If you just want public schools to be public in purpose, but
nothing else- be prepared for a greater divide between rich and poor, even
if you may end up on the poor side.

Also, Mathews has an vision of the community supporting public schools, and he
often refers back to the time when teachers and schooling was the whole
communities business, not just the "professionals.” What implications or
impact do you think desegregation had on "public" schooling in Black
communities?

Alcine Mumby
NYC
November 14, 2003

Lucia St. Denis
NYC
November 16, 2003

On page 31, Mathews says, "Public relationships are formed in very specific ways. They emerge when pepole see connections between what is happening to them, on the one hand, and what is valuable to them, on the other. They form around a sense of common fate, interdependece, and overlapping purposes. They come alive in a willingness to take responsibility and act together."

I was at the Coalition of Essential Schools conference last weekend. At the closing session Linda Darling Hammond and Debbie Meier had a conversation (with Claudio Sanchez moderating). I was taking notes furiously as they spoke, and I only had my business cards to write on!

I thought that some of the remarks were quite relevant to our discussion, especially in regard to Alcine and Lucia's comments and the preceding paragraph from Mathews. So here we go:
Linda Darling Hammond talked about how we need to fund education like we fund the war in Iraq—we find the money we need miraculously. She said we need to, “…spread the responsibility for funding public education as broadly as possible for equity, instead of by local property taxes.”

Later she added, “We have the No Child Left Behind act as a result of the inequities in local communities’ ability and will to serve kids.”

Debbie Meier spoke more directly of the connections between members of the public by saying that just like it's hard for her to imagine not having the money for healthcare and food for her family, it's hard for others to imagine not have the money to live in mansions and travel in private jets.

I wonder what you all think about these comments. Do you think we see the connections that Mathews talks about? And what effect do you see this having on our public schools?

Have a great weekend!

Judi Fenton
NYC
November 21, 2003

Jude Julien
NYC
November 21, 2003

Today, New York City's and New York State's public schools are
amongst the most segregated in the entire nation. And they are that
way not because of Brown, which, after all, only addressed de jure
racial segregation in the South. They are that way because of de
facto racial segregation in the North, a segregation which was not
seriously impacted by Brown and which has grown since Brown. Since
1990, American schools are resegregating, as Gary Orfield and his
colleagues at the Civil Rights Project at Harvard University have so
carefully documented. The problems we face in our de facto segregated
schools is not because of racial desegregation, but because of the
half-hearted, half measures used to implement racial desegregation,
measures that stopped far short of achieving the goal.

Leo Casey
NYC
November 22, 2003

It has been a real struggle for me to convince my students’ parents that they are welcome in my classroom, that they are valued as partners in their kids’ education and that they are respected as people who know their kids’ needs. It certainly doesn’t help when parents are turned away from the school. If this is the message schools are sending the community, how can community involvement be a positive one?

I would propose that a prerequisite or addendum to Mathews’ public strategies would be that schools must share a mindset with teachers that parents and community members are valuable assets and have the right and responsibility to have a say in how their kids are educated.

I hope your Thanksgiving found you happy and healthy.

Miya Hirabayashi
NYC
November 29, 2003